Category Archives: Partners

Mission Creek Checkerspot Spotlight

Posted June 21, 2016

in Ecological Restoration Education Nature inside Partners Science

One of Mission Creek's captively bred Taylor's checkerspot butterflies basking shortly after released on Joint Base Lewis-McChord.

One of Mission Creek’s captively bred Taylor’s checkerspot butterflies basking shortly after release on Joint Base Lewis-McChord prairie. Photo by Seth Dorman.

Another wonderful rearing season is coming to a close at Mission Creek Corrections Center for Women. This year butterfly technicians and staff woke up sleeping caterpillars or larvae in early February. The “sleep” phase of the butterfly’s life cycle is called diapause. Since wake-up, the capable butterfly technicians at Mission Creek have been working hard to provide excellent care at each life stage (i.e., larvae, pupae, adults, eggs), while also collecting extensive environmental and life stage summary data.

Butterfly technicians feed post-diapause larvae for the first time after “wake-up.” Photo by Seth Dorman.

A post-diapause larva feeding captured by the butterfly technicians with a digital microscope, a recent addition to the butterfly greenhouse this season.

Once our 2,800 plus larvae woke from their winter slumber it was off to the races and it was a challenge to make sure all of the growing animals were well fed. After sleeping through the fall and winter, these post-diapause or 5^th instar larvae were hungry and eager to store up enough energy to molt one final time before entering their pupal life stage. The larvae are kept in deli containers with 15 per cup and each cup can eat two or three plantain leaves a day! That means a lot of plantain leaves need to be gathered and washed every morning to keep all of our hungry larvae satisfied. This year, pesky deer began grazing on our plantain plants beds during the night, so the butterfly technicians designed a cover made out of bird netting to ward them off.

Butterfly technicians, Michelle Dittamore and Eva Ortiz, release post diapause larvae in Mima Mound prairies while PBS captures the moment on film.

Butterfly technicians, Michelle Dittamore and Eva Ortiz, release post-diapause larvae in Mima Mound prairies while PBS captures every step on film. Photo by Sadie Gilliom.

In late February, just over 2,500 of our post-diapause larvae were released into the wild at two reintroduction sites located on South Sound prairies. This year, two of the butterfly technicians were able to travel from the prison to the field to help with the release for the first time in the butterfly program’s history! Also participating in the release was Carolina Landa, a former butterfly technician and current SPP Advisor and student at The Evergreen State College. A reporter and camera person from the PBS NewsHour and several other media representatives filmed the release.

Previous butterfly technician, Carolina Landa, releases pre diapause larvae into the wild for the first time.

Previous butterfly technician, Carolina Landa, releases pre-diapause larvae into the wild. Photo by Sadie Gilliom.

Mission Creek retained 350 larvae for breeding. We welcomed our pupa on March 12^th and first adult butterfly on April 15^th. Once the first few lineages of adults emerged from their chrysalis or pupal stage, the butterfly technicians began pairing lineages and placing them in breeding tents. Since the adult butterflies are finicky about where they like to breed, technicians typically move them around the greenhouse until the butterflies seem satisfied by sunlight and temperature conditions.

During the height of the breeding season, the Oregon Zoo’s Head Butterfly Keeper, Julia Low made a visit to Mission Creek to offer suggestions to the butterfly technicians on maximizing breeding. She admitted to taking a few notes of her own, learning from the technicians at Mission Creek. After a pair of butterflies has bred or copulated, they are placed in a deli container until the female is ready to be placed into an oviposition or egg-laying chamber. The chamber is filled with host plants for the female to lay her eggs on and prairie nectaring flowers to help stimulate egg laying.

Eva Ortiz juggles multiple breeding tents while trying to find optimal breeding conditions. Photo by Seth Dorman.

Butterfly copulation or breeding event. Photo by Seth Dorman.

Gravid adult female placed in oviposition chamber for egg laying. Photo by Kelli Bush.

Butterfly technicians Cynthia Fetterly and Jessica Stevens discuss egg collection strategies. Photo by Kelli Bush.

This season two new butterfly technicians, Cynthia Fetterly and Jessica Stevens, joined the rearing team and proved to be invaluable throughout the season. In addition to learning all of our husbandry protocols outlined by the Oregon Zoo and getting experience with all of the butterfly’s life stages throughout the season, they also took upon themselves to work extensively with monitoring the egg-laying females and caring for each of the egg clusters laid by our captive and wild females. Although we came just short of our egg targets this year, we were able to meet our target with some help from the Oregon Zoo and are projected to have just over 3,000 larvae for release and breeding next season.

Julia Low with the Oregon Zoo chatting butterfly husbandry with the technicians at Mission Creek. Photo by Seth Dorman.

Mission Creek butterflies being released by Mary Linders. Photo by Seth Dorman.

After breeding concluded, 125 of our captive adults were released on one of our reintroduction sites on Joint Base Lewis-McChord. The adults were released by Biologist Mary Linders of Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife and SPP Program Coordinator Seth Dorman.

The butterfly technicians are currently occupying our 3,000 larvae that have hatched successfully and will continue feeding until they have molted five times and return to diapause through the fall and winter.

Butterfly technicians pose in front of educational poster set up for visiting Girl Scouts Behind Bars.

Butterfly technicians pose in front of educational poster set up for Girl Scouts Behind Bars visiting the butterfly greenhouse. Photo by Seth Dorman.

SPP Internship on Reentry

Posted June 15, 2016

by trivettj

in Partners Prison Life Reentry

by Carolina Landa

June 6, 2016

This semester has been very amazing for me working with SPP, an organization that I respect and owe a lot to. One of the most self-inspiring moments was going back into a prison after almost two years of being released. I was able to go with Marcenia Milligan and Misty Liles who are working on a DOC pilot program for reentry. The work they are doing is amazing, first off. They are really dedicated at helping incarcerated people succeed on their reentry back into the community. The 1.5 million grant is only being used for incarcerated people and the reentry services offered to them—none is going to DOC staff salaries. The reentry team made this decision at the beginning, which is humbling to think of and shows heart in the work they are doing.

As I entered Monroe Correctional Complex I became overwhelmed with emotion and started to cry—there was no way around this and I anticipated it would happen. There was just something about hearing those doors and gates lock that immediately took me back to 5 years ago when I first became incarcerated. I don’t think that will ever go away. But the feeling I was able to feel while I was able to interact with the men was priceless, and it affirmed very much for me that I was and am following exactly what I am supposed to be doing with my life.

A slide from the reentry presentation Carolina created as an SPP intern. Photo in top left is by Benj Drummond and Sara Joy Steele.

People incarcerated are truly some of the most amazing people I have met. Society might not view it that way but I do. There is a bond with them that I immediately have because I know the struggle and I understand their story.

I decided to focus my time around reentry because I feel it is something where SPP could help a lot of the people in the programs in the prisons and after release, as they have helped me. What I ended up learning about reentry is that it is very complex. Being able to come up with, let’s say, a list of resources is complex because that list is always changing. I also realized that a semester is not enough time to dedicate to reentry, especially for SPP, as this is all new to them. The only story, advice and resources I can give are what I have used myself in reentry. I agree that there are some good organizations out there, but what happens is that a lot of the time the funding is only available for maybe a year, and then is gone.

Successful reentry has to be all focused around networking: I really believe that is what reentry means. Who you know is an important factor and also using what others have used before you. I will continue to dedicate my time to reentry with SPP as I feel very passionate about helping others who have been where I once was. This list of resources will take a while to conduct and in the end it will most likely be some organizations, but I believe most will be names of persons that I will pick up along the way.

I very much am grateful for this opportunity to work with SPP. Thank you; it has helped me be the person I am today, by continuously believing and encouraging me. I only want to help others succeed as well. We are well on our way to making reentry focus a bit more stronger for SPP.

Larch’s First Turtle Release: A Technician’s Response

Posted June 13, 2016

by Emily Passarelli

in Conservation Programs Ecological Restoration Nature inside Partners Prison Life

by Sadie Gilliom, SPP Western Pond Turtle Program Coordinator, and Mr. Goff, SPP Turtle Technician
Photos by Sadie Gilliom, except where noted

On May 18th, 2016, Larch Corrections Center released its first nine turtles into a pond in Klickitat County. These were state-listed endangered western pond turtles that received care at Larch. The turtles had been removed form the wild by biologists from the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife because they were suffering from a shell disease. They received acute treatment by the veterinarian at the Oregon Zoo and then transferred to Larch Corrections Center where two trained technicians cared for the turtles until they were ready to be released back into the wild.

A Larch turtle is ready for release.

The release site was a lovely pond in Klickitat County.

The team—myself, Larch’s SPP Liaison Mr. Piliponis, Superintendent Oliver-Estes, the two technicians, Sergeant, and Mark Francis—drove 3 hours to a beautiful wetland. It was a sunny day with a clear view of Mt. Hood. We were greeted by WDFW biologist Stefanie Bergh, the founder of the Western Pond Turtle breeding program, Frank Slavins, and Oregon Zoo volunteers and staff. The Oregon Zoo was releasing the turtle hatchlings from their head start program on the same day.

Sgt. Mark Franklin guards the turtles.

Supt. Oliver-Estes Saying Farewell to a Turtle

Larch Superintendent Oliver-Estes says farewell to a turtle.

Turtle Technician Mr. Hill Learning About Turtle Anatomy

Turtle Technician Mr. Hill examined empty shells to learn more about turtle anatomy.

After meeting everyone, learning about the different tools the biologists use to study the turtles, and the technicians answering lots of questions about the Larch turtles from curious volunteers, we made our way down to the water’s edge. One by one all of the turtles were gently placed near the water. Then they trudged their way into the pond to swim off and join the others. This march to freedom was a moment to remember for all of the many players in the army to save the western pond turtle, but perhaps most memorable for the turtle technicians who are prepping for release themselves.

Turtle Technician Mr. Hill Teaching Zoo Volunteers About Westen Pond Turtles

Turtle Technician Mr. Hill taught young zoo volunteers about western pond turtles.

After the turtle release, Turtle Technician Mr. Joseph Goff shared his response to the experience:

“On Dec 19 2015 I became a caretaker. It was probably the last thing I thought I would be doing in my current situation. Caretaking is a humbling experience. It gives you a perspective on yourself, but also makes you focus on something or someone else. To be one of the reasons that these turtles survive is amazing. Also to see all the other people that have a part as well or are even just interested in knowing what they could do to to help. In so many ways this in something pure. To have so many people come together on one common ground doing what they can to help a turtle that has no means to help himself.

This program has opened my eyes—first to my future. I always have loved anything to do with nature or animals. I want to go back to school for it now. I want to volunteer and do it for a living. This program has also changed my perspective on people. Outside of family I guess I’ve lost my ability to put trust in or listen to others. Surrounding myself with people who always had ulterior motives or just take and pretend to care. It made me close-minded and hardened. In fact, a lot of people probably might have said I was one of those people that had ulterior motives that pretended to care.

Now I’m caring for these turtles who ironically are sick just like I was. They are enclosed and cared for. When their time is up and they are well they get to leave; if they get sick again they come back. I’m also involved with other caregivers that have helped me find a part of myself I had lost along the way. I believe this program has greatly changed my current life and if I continue with this same line of work or similar, I will be forever changed.”

Turtle Technician Mr. Goff Releasing a Turtle.

The technicians watched the turtles swim away.

All the Collaborators for the Turtle Program

Here is the Larch’s Turtle Program team. Photo by Zoo Volunteer.

All snaps! Airway Heights amazing firewood program

Posted June 6, 2016

by trivettj

in Community Organizations Partners Prison Life Tours

To make or receive donations from the firewood program, contact mvjackson@doc1.wa.gov and rabaker@DOC1.WA.GOV.

Article text and photos by Joslyn Rose Trivett, SPP Network Manager

I have known about Airway Heights Corrections Center (AHCC)’s firewood program for years, but had no idea of the scale. I have never seen so much firewood.

On public lands such as parks and state forests, AHCC’s community crews remove trees which fell during storms, and cut trees which are crowding others or posing a hazard. Logs come back to the minimum security yard for splitting, stacking and curing. The prison partners with SNAP (Spokane Neighborhood Action Partners) to provide people of low income with no-cost firewood, to heat their homes. The winter of 2015-16, AHCC’s firewood program donated more than 660 cords of wood to Spokane County residents!

half-the-firewood — This photo shows about *half* the firewood currently stacked at the Corrections Center.

chipper-meeting — A spontaneous meeting forms around the chipper: DOC staff, visiting compost experts, and a technician discuss the finer points of chipping waste wood. (The chips get turned into compost for the gardens, of course.)

firewood-2 — Dang, those are good looking stacks!

firewood-splitter — A technician paused in his work with the splitter so I could take his photograph.

firewood-maul — The crew manually splits and stacks firewood, building their communities’ resources.

Photos from WCCW Work party

Posted April 26, 2016

by trivettj

in Conservation Programs Nature inside Partners Prison Life

Text and photos by Joslyn Rose Trivett, SPP Network Manager

In late March, the prairie conservation nursery at Washington Corrections Center for women held a work party. Three SPP staff who had never before worked in an SPP nursery got to join the crew for a day: Sadie Gilliom, SPP turtle program coordinator, Liliana Caughman, lecture series coordinator, and me. It was a gorgeous, sunny spring day—hot, even, under the hoop house plastic.

Our gracious hosts were conservation nursery technicians Stephanie Boyle and Lerissa Iata, SPP Conservation Nursery Manager Carl Elliott, and DOC’s Scott Skaggs. It was such fun to join their work, and help them catch up with the needs of sprouting seeds.

SPP’s Liliana Caughman fills her seeding tray with Lomatium seeds while Sadie Gilliom and Carl Elliott fill racks with soil.

The Lomatium helped inspire the work party—it started sprouting in the fridge earlier than normal.

Conservation technicians Stephanie Boyle makes tags to label seed lots sown.

Conservation technicians Stephanie Boyle makes tags to label the seed lots sown.

Conservation technician Lerissa Iata checks on prairie species growing in the hoop house at Washington Corrections Center for Women.

Conservation technician Lerissa Iata checks for weeds growing among prairie species.

Since the violet beds were built, a pair of killdeer has used them as a nesting site, and the birds are adored by many at the prison. As is typical for killdeer, they laid their eggs out in the open, and anytime a visitor comes near they put on a loud and vigorous display.

Beyond the killdeer eggs, on the first truly warm day of spring, you can see many sun lovers out in the yard.

I asked the work party to pose for a group photo, and they were such cool subjects that we all cracked up.

I admire the balsamroot seedlings in the nurery. I love plants! Photo by Liliana Caughman.

Anywhere and everywhere we can, we bring nature inside prisons.

Principle & Practice: Learning and doing science at Shotwell’s

Posted April 14, 2016

by trivettj

in Conservation Programs Ecological Research Education Partners Science

by Joslyn Rose Trivett, SPP Network Manager

In February, I visited Shotwell’s Landing and got to see the prairie restoration crew in action. The crew is contributing to program coordinator Conrad Ely‘s thesis research for the Master of Environmental Studies program. The research builds on the work of an earlier Master’s thesis investigating how treating seeds with plant-derived smoke water, which contains many of the same chemicals present in prairie fires, can affect their germination rates and vigor—many prairie species are very difficult to propagate, and they hope to trigger germination with treatments simulating prairie fire.

After the first nursery tasks of the day, program coordinator Conrad Ely shared a presentation on the scientific method. He tied principles of research design to their shared experiment, and then to Mima Mounds enigma. He used theories on the Mima Mounds’ formation to illustrate opportunities as well as limitations of the scientific process. From their experience with prairie restoration, the crew knows the Mounds well, and they jumped in with their own thoughts and theories.

My gratitude for everything the crew does for the region’s prairies. They are employed in prairie restoration full time, and their efforts and enthusiasm make a big difference for South Sound prairies, one of the most rare and threatened landscapes in the nation.

Program coordinator Conrad Ely leads discussion of the scientific method.

Benjamin Hall brought great questions and ideas to the discussion of the Mima Mounds mystery.

Nursery technicians Robert Bowers (left) and Andrew McManus (right) track seed lots for stratification prior to spring sowing.

Conrad discusses germination rates with technicians Bobby Un (left) and Benjamin Hall (right).

The group visited the demonstration garden at the north end of Shotwell’s Landing, mostly dormant in the winter but still a pleasing site for contemplation.

Washington State Penitentiary Collaboration for the Birds!

Posted February 29, 2016

by trivettj

in Community Organizations Conservation Programs Partners Prison Life Sustainable Operations

By Kelli Bush, SPP Program Manager

It’s always nice to do positive projects. It helps us do our time with rewarding accomplishment knowing it helps the community and wildlife. ~Michael Feeney

We appreciate the opportunity to work with the public for environmental causes. ~Roy Townsend

Roy Townsend, Michael Feeney, Robert Beck, Robert Haugen, Luke Andrade, and Jose Ayala pose with the barn owl next boxes they build in the Sustainable Practices Lab. Photo by DOC staff.

Inmates working in the Sustainable Practices Lab at Washington State Penitentiary (WSP) are building owl boxes for the Blue Mountain Audubon. The boxes are installed in vineyards to help with rodent control—a strategy that will benefit viticulturists and owls alike. The boxes are designed to be suitable homes for barn owls. The Blue Mountain Audubon’s Owl Nest Box Project was inspired by the Hungry Owl Project, a non-profit dedicated to reducing the use of toxic rodenticides while promoting owl and wildlife conservation.

Rodenticides can be slow to poison rodents. Poisoned rodents are sluggish and debilitated—easy prey for owls, hawks, eagles, falcons and other wildlife. Consuming contaminated rodents can make predator animals ill and can even result in death.

Barn owls have voracious appetites. Installing barn owl boxes can be a cost effective way to manage a rodent problem without relying on rodenticides, and can support healthy wildlife. According the Hungry Owl website, a single Barn Owl family can consume 3,000 rodents during their 4 month breeding cycle. Barn owls can have multiple clutches a year, raising the total for possible consumed rodents to 6,000 – 9,000 a year per owl box!

Blue Mountain Audubon installs a barn owl nest box in a Walla Walla area vineyard.

According to WSP Corrections Specialist Chris McGill, the first round of owl boxes built by inmates was “a big hit” and they have received a request for 20 more boxes. This is an excellent example of a collaborative program to benefit people and wildlife. Great work WSP Sustainable Practices Lab!

Planning action for Clallam Bay

Posted February 29, 2016

by trivettj

in Budget Conservation Programs Education Partners Prison Life Sustainable Operations

by Joslyn Rose Trivett, SPP Network Manager

After months of pre-meetings and scheduling, Clallam Bay Corrections Center (CBCC) hosted two days of Action Planning: deciding next steps to expand SPP programs at the prison. The event brought together many great minds and stakeholders: the Director of Prisons Steve Sinclair, prison Superintendent Ronald Hayes, the well-stocked Sustainability Committee, visiting experts on beekeeping, rainwater catchment, and the Makah tribe, SPP managers, and Capitol Programs staff from Headquarters. We were there to plan for two or three new sustainability initiatives.

There was no shortage of excellent ideas in the room. We explored the merits of many, many programs and strategies. Narrowing our focus was a real challenge—so many contenders, so many promising avenues toward sustainability, how to pick which are the very best?

At the end of Day 1, we held a vote, and it was a relief to see a few clear winners emerge.

After a day of good-natured debate over CBCC’s sustainability priorities, the group gets ready to vote.

When the votes were cast, the clear winners were water conservation/culture change and beekeeping.

Culture change through water conservation

The top choice was a hybrid focus: water conservation and culture change. At a prison where it rains 95 inches a year (that’s really wet), and pulls water from a salmon-bearing stream, the group was determined to use less tap water and catch more rainwater. Promoting these changes seemed an ideal way to promote sustainable choices in general.

To achieve this goal, we decided on several action items, including:

create posters to display throughout the facility (see example below)
publish and distribute sustainability newsletters, with versions for inmates and staff
in each housing unit, hold Town Hall sustainability meetings

This poster promotes saving resources at the prison, with an inmate audience in mind; the version for staff is slightly different.

Beekeeping

The other winner was beekeeping—all agreed that a honeybee program could bring numerous rewards to the prison. Corrections staff and inmates could gain recognized education and certification. In-prison beekeepers could enjoy calming, meditative work with the hives. The hives could contribute healthy bees to pollinate the prison’s organic gardens and bolster local honeybee population. All involved could help build the international effort to restore the pollinators on which we depend.

We settled on these actions to bring beekeeping to CBCC:

Create beekeeping posters
Write and submit a proposal to the prison Captain, identifying planned costs, siting, and safety protocol
Consult with the North Olympic Peninsula Beekeepers on how best to offer certification program at the prison

All in all, we were impressed by how much we were able to plan in two days. The actions taken since also attest to Action Planning’s worth: we have been busy as bees turning those plans into reality.

Turtles and Plantain at Larch Corrections Center

Posted February 29, 2016

by trivettj

in Conservation Programs Nature inside Partners

by Kelli Bush, SPP Program Manager

From left to right, a WDFW biologist, SPP program coordinator Sadie Gilliom, and two new turtle technicians, discuss how to biologist how to care for a western pond turtle. Photo by Kelli Bush.

WDFW Biologist Stefani Bergh, Facilities Manager Terry Hettinger, and the new turtle technicians discuss how to care for western pond turtles at Larch Corrections Center. Photo by Carl Elliott.

It has been an exciting year at Larch Corrections Center (LCC) as two new SPP conservation programs have been established at the minimum security prison located east of Vancouver, WA. Prison staff and leadership have been excellent partners—they worked quickly to create a new turtle lab and build plantain beds, and have been great collaborators and communicators.

Turtles

The first new program involves work with state-endangered western pond turtles (Actinemys marmorata), that builds on the success of the turtle program at Cedar Creek Corrections Center. Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologists have been finding turtles in the wild afflicted with a shell disease. Sick reptiles are transferred from the wild to the Oregon Zoo to receive acute veterinary care. After initial treatment, turtles are transported to LCC to receive extended care and monitoring. Inmate technicians are providing excellent care. Once recovered, turtles will be returned to the wild. Currently Larch Corrections Center is caring for eight turtles which will likely be released late March or early April.

Taylor’s checkerspot butterfly caterpillars munch on plantain at SPP’s butterfly rearing program at Mission Creek Corrections Center. Photo by Benj Drummond and Sara Joy Steele.

Plantain for butterflies

SPP and LCC have also teamed up with the Oregon Zoo to grow narrow leaf plantain (Plantago lanceolata). This plant is a critical food source for federally-endangered Taylor’s checkerspot butterflies (Euphydryas editha taylori) which are being reared at the Oregon Zoo and at Mission Creek Corrections Center for Women. LCC is growing about 3,500 plants to feed rapidly growing butterfly larvae at the Oregon Zoo. One to two times per week, inmate technicians will harvest leaves from plantain plants grown in 10 raised bed gardens at LCC.

We are so pleased to collaborate with the fabulous folks at Oregon Zoo, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife and others to bring these programs to LCC!

Honeybee love

Posted February 5, 2016

by trivettj

in Community Organizations Conservation Programs Education Nature inside Partners Prison Life

by Joslyn Rose Trivett, SPP Network Manager

I am dangerously allergic to yellowjacket stings. I have been stung by yellowjackets many times, and I fear and avoid them.

As a good ecologist, I know that honeybees are very different than yellowjackets, but I still wanted to stay away from them. Even the thought of bees, wasps, and hornets has been enough to scare me. I tolerated SPP’s honeybee programs because I supported them in principle, but never wanted too get too close.

A few weeks ago, I suddenly realized that I’ve changed: I have learned to love honeybees. It happened by accident—I didn’t set out to change my mind, but changed it is!

I love this photo of bees in flight; on some of them, you can clearly see their "baskets" full of pollen on their rear legs. Image from organizedchaos.com.

I love this photo of bees in flight; on the central bee, you can clearly see one of her “baskets” full of pollen. Image from organizedchaos.com.

I think the shift started last summer, working on King 5’s story on beekeeping. Mr. Anglemeyer, Mr. Boyson, and Officer Epling’s enthusiasm and praise for the program must have been infectious. It was also the first time I met Laurie Pyne of the Olympia Beekeepers Association, and she radiates excitement about honeybees. Last fall, her guest lecture on honeybees had my rapt attention, and I memorized parts of her presentation without even trying.

Also during recent months, we have heard more and more beekeeping interest from prison staff and inmates. Cedar Creek has graduated their second class of Apprentice Beekeepers. Stafford Creek Corrections Center, Washington Corrections Center for Women, and the Penitentiary also have hives. For the prisons that don’t have honeybees yet, we keep hearing that they want them: Clallam Bay Corrections Center, Airway Heights, Coyote Ridge, and Washington Corrections Center all want honeybees too…time for me to get with the program! Luckily, seems I already have.

If I stood right next to a hive, I might still feel like screaming.